13 replies to this topic

[Spanky]

Well im about to get a new toy to mess with while the focus is going to be a full time grocery getter.Here is the car with the modifcations i am doing and what it has already.

2001 Dodge Neon R/T

Catless Exhaust
Comp Cams
Intake Manifold (pending)
K&N Short Ram Intake
Short Shifter
A/C Removed

16" Wheels (Same specs as stock)
215/45R 16 All season tires
SRT 4 Struts
SRT 4 Springs
Strut Tower Bars (Pending)

Then just random Cosmetics
SRT4 Bumper,Hood,and Lights

I think it may be FSP but idk because of the A/C being Removed.I also know that A/C was an option in the SE Model but Im not sure if it was standard in the R/T.

Any help is always appreciated.

[bronxbomber252]

the Cams put you in SM. I would not bother with the Strut tower braces... they do nothing and just add weight... instead I would save towards a wider set of wheels with some grippier rubber, the Intake mani may also bump you into SM but Id have to double check my rulebook first.

Since you could get a neon w/o A/c then you can legally remove it in SP classes

[IMPREZvWRX]

bronxbomber252, on Jul 1 2010, 06:39 PM, said:

the Cams put you in SM. I would not bother with the Strut tower braces... they do nothing and just add weight... instead I would save towards a wider set of wheels with some grippier rubber, the Intake mani may also bump you into SM but Id have to double check my rulebook first.

Since you could get a neon w/o A/c then you can legally remove it in SP classes

A/C removal is permitted in *SP.

I told someone the other day that internal engine modifications aren't legal in SM, but they apparently are. The engine is pretty much unrestricted, as long as it came in a vehicle from the same manufacturer of the car. That puts the Neon in SM or SMF, depending on if you wanna play with the Subarus or not.

[Junkyard Racing]

Quote

15.10 AA. Camshafts and related parts must remain standard

(followed by a long winded exception that doesn't fit your car)
The cam would put you in Street Mod ...and by street mod I'm pretty sure me and Bryan both mean SMF, because that neon drives with the wrong set of wheels, and honestly, I feel you're better off without it- 150HP (a lil more with the intake and manifold) is plenty for a 2450lbs car, stay out of Street Mod and you'll pax better


On the Strut Tower bars, I'm all for them. They help make the car a little more rigid, and middle-aged American monocoque cars need all the added stiffness they can get- the average strut bar isn't exactly the heaviest thing you can bolt onto a car, and in my opinion the reduced flex is well worth the added weight. However, the rules may not be. Section 15.8 opens with the following:

Quote

15.8 Vehicles may only exceed the allowances of 13.8 as specified herein

I don't see anything that outright bans strut braces, but nothing seems to specifically allow it either, and the wording of that phrase makes it so that anything that isn't listed isn't allowed.




With the rest, I think you're clear for FSP, but lets go down item by item to check. After all, I;m just as new as you are, I'm bound to miss a thing or two (and I welcome any corrections)

Catless Exhaust is okay

Quote

15.10 F : Emission control devices may be modified or removed.

Intake Manifold is okay

Quote

C. Induction allowances are as follows:
1. Carburetors, fuel injection, and intake manifolds are unrestricted.

K&N intake is okay
(cleared by the above rule)

Short Shifter is okay

Quote

15.10 Q. Any mechanical shift linkage may be used.

A/C Removal is okay
If no-AC was an option, it's considered stock

16" Wheels are okay

Quote

15.4 A. Wheels of any diameter, width, or offset may be used.

215/45R 16 All season tires are okay
SP uses the same 'banned tire' list as stock class, that list is empty, so you;re good

SRT 4 Struts + SRT 4 Springs

Quote

15.5 C. Any shock absorbers may be used ... MacPherson strut equipped
cars may substitute struts, and/or may use any insert.

SRT4 Bumper,Hood,and Lights

Quote

15.1 C. Equipment and/or specifications may be exchanged between different
years and models of a vehicle

so basically skip the cam and strut bar and your clear for FSP.

[bronxbomber252]

Strut bars area placebo in 99% of late model cars, and in the other 1% most top level competitors will tell you that unless you are running full slicks and ridiculous suspension they will not make the car any faster, just heavier. The reason they made their way into modern tuning is 2 fold... old school cars with body on frame construction used them (and actually benefitted a little) and some modern race cars at high levels of racing use them (again with full slicks and really stiff suspension) But unless your running like 1500lb+ springs (by comparison I run 700lb front and 600lb rear springs in the S2k) the chassis flex is not going to affect your handling in any way. Spend the money on better suspension/wheels/tires etc. Even guys running late 80's civics and CRX's in ST and STS (and we all know how rigid 80's cars are) say that although you feel a slight difference in the car, they do not make it any faster and to just not bother adding the weight if there is no performance boost.

rule of thumb if the car is not your DD: if it adds weight and doesn't add speed, don't add it.

Honestly, if this is only gonna be your autox toy, and you are gonna run SM/SMF take out the rear seats too, thats legal for SM/SMF and will cut a good amount of weight out. then start saving for the following in order

1)Wider wheels with grippier tires (either Extreme high performance summer tires, or R-comps)
2)Some nice adjustible Koni yellow shocks (I dont care what the fast and furious crowd says, they perform better than, and are more consistant in their adjustments than any of those: Buddy club, tein, HKS, Stance or other popular coilover sets), with some adjustable spring perches from either Koni or ground control and some stiffer springs (poke around on neon forums and look for the serious autox guys and see what they say for spring rates)
3) Any more engine mods you want, mild or crazy forced induction.

If you look at SCCA club racing, and older Autox results you will see that the neon is a surprisingly good platform for FWD racing.

[Spanky]

The car is already cammed so SMF it is.I know the older 1st gen neons are awesome and i found one i was looking at that would do good in SM but it's not worth it to me.I'll bring the car and see how she does and go from there.Forced induction is the next step because the engine is on a fresh rebuild.Also with the stress bars i have driven a neon with them and with out them and they do seem to make a difference with body roll.

[bronxbomber252]

Spanky, on Jul 2 2010, 09:50 AM, said:

The car is already cammed so SMF it is.I know the older 1st gen neons are awesome and i found one i was looking at that would do good in SM but it's not worth it to me.I'll bring the car and see how she does and go from there.Forced induction is the next step because the engine is on a fresh rebuild.Also with the stress bars i have driven a neon with them and with out them and they do seem to make a difference with body roll.

Id do wheels/tires and suspension before FI just because they make a bigger difference especially in the tight, slippery, lot we use.

THe strut bars cannot (laws of physics) effect body roll unless of course you are talking about a sway bar and not a strut bar) the difference is a strut bar connects to non moving parts (the top of the shock towers) and thus can prevent chassis flex, but cannot effect suspension movement that causes body roll... Sway bars connect the left and right control arms which are moving suspension bits. This resists the the two control arms being at different heights (such as a car leaning in a turn) which will flatten out body roll and (if used properly) improve handling. What you are likely feeling is the chassis flexing less which gives the illusion of more roll stiffness to the driver, but if you concentrate on how much the car is actually rolling (ride shot gun and watch the horizon for example) you will notice that the car rolls just as much

[Spanky]

So a buddy of mine wants to come learn how to kill cones.He has a Ford Probe and here is his modifications to help class him.I was thinking he would be in a street touring class but wasn't sure because of the clutch he is running and the ignition.

bosal 4-2-1 header
option racing intake
2.25 catback piping with magnaflow high flow cat and magnaflow race series stainless muffler
Outlaw Engineering thermablock spacers
NGK spark plug wires
NGK laser iridium ix plugs
MSD 8.5mm coil to disty wire
MSD baster Coil
MSD 6al

Transmission
Exedy stage 1 clutch
Corksport Stanless clutch line
Short Throw Shifter

Suspension/wheels
KYB gr2 struts
Ford Escort strut mounts
Dropzone springs
Moog endlinks
1/4 inch spacers
stock wheels with primewell pz900s front and hankook ventus rears

[jgartland]

frankie step on up to SM > ahaha its a fun class

[IMPREZvWRX]

jgartland, on Aug 30 2010, 10:12 PM, said:

frankie step on up to SM > ahaha its a fun class

Subaru Mod 4 lyfe!

...or until I move to FP. Who's coming with me???

[bronxbomber252]

Spanky, on Aug 30 2010, 02:49 AM, said:

So a buddy of mine wants to come learn how to kill cones.He has a Ford Probe and here is his modifications to help class him.I was thinking he would be in a street touring class but wasn't sure because of the clutch he is running and the ignition.

bosal 4-2-1 header
option racing intake
2.25 catback piping with magnaflow high flow cat and magnaflow race series stainless muffler
Outlaw Engineering thermablock spacers
NGK spark plug wires
NGK laser iridium ix plugs
MSD 8.5mm coil to disty wire
MSD baster Coil
MSD 6al

Transmission
Exedy stage 1 clutch
Corksport Stanless clutch line
Short Throw Shifter

Suspension/wheels
KYB gr2 struts
Ford Escort strut mounts
Dropzone springs
Moog endlinks
1/4 inch spacers
stock wheels with primewell pz900s front and hankook ventus rears

gonna be an SP class... not sure which one... SCCA.com will tell you which

[Spanky]

bronxbomber252, on Aug 31 2010, 12:45 AM, said:

gonna be an SP class... not sure which one... SCCA.com will tell you which

Okay i figured he would be in a prepared class.Ill check on it.

As for SM... Not this season,but next season i'll see SM If my build goes as planned.

[jgartland]

IMPREZvWRX, on Aug 30 2010, 11:18 PM, said:

Subaru Mod 4 lyfe!

...or until I move to FP. Who's coming with me???

why are you going to FP?

[IMPREZvWRX]

jgartland, on Aug 31 2010, 07:39 AM, said:

why are you going to FP?

Because I hope that one day the .001 difference in Pax will make a difference. Plus, one day I might talk some of our built motor friends might make it out, and I believe that's where they belong.